tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5839327913025642485.post1895142613951670718..comments2023-03-25T03:29:15.159-07:00Comments on AGNOSTIC POPULAR FRONT: The Art of the Five-Finger Down PunchDamionhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14360566092148805751noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5839327913025642485.post-42090022995275189732012-08-06T23:48:10.564-07:002012-08-06T23:48:10.564-07:00It continues:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostd...It continues:<br /><br />http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2012/08/05/female-privilege-and-scientific-qualifications/Bryan Pestahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08489662466643928790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5839327913025642485.post-83185795285530160152012-07-31T16:45:44.312-07:002012-07-31T16:45:44.312-07:00Fwiw, that's not my twitter account nor do I c...Fwiw, that's not my twitter account nor do I claim to be active in the "movement". <br /><br />B. PestaBryan Pestahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08489662466643928790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5839327913025642485.post-12124330699364728622012-07-27T08:25:32.236-07:002012-07-27T08:25:32.236-07:00Relatedly, it should be pointed out that audience ...Relatedly, it should be pointed out that audience privilege is highly intersectional with male privilege, white privilege, educational privilege, and the (politically unspeakable) privilege of being born damn clever. This might help explain why almost all the most prominent names in skepticism and freethought (Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, Hitchens, Stenger, Sagan, Randi, Shermer) check all of these boxes.<br /><br />Speaking of privilege and boxes and highly-educated white guys, have you seen <a href="http://bachodi.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/atheists.jpg" rel="nofollow">this meme</a> yet?Damionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14360566092148805751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5839327913025642485.post-11014520837347622022012-07-27T08:19:14.249-07:002012-07-27T08:19:14.249-07:00The lack of awareness is exhibited in the act of p...The lack of awareness is exhibited in the act of punching down itself. If the writers cited above (not just PZ) remembered what is was like to have a small platform and relative inability to get a hearing in the community, I'd expect them to be somewhat more circumspect in condemning those who don't have anything resembling the FtBully pulpit.Damionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14360566092148805751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5839327913025642485.post-80858451484563225772012-07-26T22:08:59.429-07:002012-07-26T22:08:59.429-07:00From the first paragraph: "At TJLP, we think ...From the first paragraph: "At TJLP, we think of privilege as an unearned advantage that a dominant group has over marginalized groups ... A key aspect of privilege is that, due to its unearned nature, those who have privilege often do not realize they have it"<br /><br />Pretty clearly the unearnedness and lack of awareness are important factors, and I don't see how either of those apply to PZ.intepidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06952425050298527970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5839327913025642485.post-87511977339386405252012-07-26T20:58:33.883-07:002012-07-26T20:58:33.883-07:00Also, and this may surprise you, I completely appr...Also, and this may surprise you, I completely approve of the TJLP document. It encourages the consideration of privilege not as a verbal cudgel to berate others but as a useful concept to transform oneself. In the lingo of Twitter, they are #DoingItRightDamionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14360566092148805751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5839327913025642485.post-29788785409542180932012-07-26T20:52:28.200-07:002012-07-26T20:52:28.200-07:00I appreciate that PZ has worked very hard to get h...I appreciate that PZ has worked very hard to get his audience, but I cannot agree that the concept of privilege is so narrow as to exclude that for which one worked: <a href="http://tjlp.org/privilege101.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://tjlp.org/privilege101.pdf</a><br /><br />For example, "Class privilege can also apply to someone who has accrued wealth over time" and "Educational privilege" (IMO) can apply to those who had to scrabble to work their way through college and graduate school.<br /><br />I can agree, of course, that wholly unearned privileges are more relevant to social justice movements, inasmuch as one of the fundamental goals of social justice is to level the playing field between those born with given advantages and those born without.Damionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14360566092148805751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5839327913025642485.post-37953406652491246742012-07-26T20:09:16.895-07:002012-07-26T20:09:16.895-07:00Do you think "audience privilege" as hel...Do you think "audience privilege" as held by someone like PZ is in the same class as 'male privilege'? Of course I agree that an audience gives you power, but I wouldn't describe that as privilege, at least not in the social-justice sense. <br /><br />By default a man is treated differently, assumed to be smarter, more confident, better at comedy etc, than a woman (all else equal). This assumption is a privilege we grant him just for being a man, he doesn't need to work for it or fight for it. Respected, rational people like Hitchens have presented rationales for why this made perfect sense from an evolutionary psychology perspective (he believed women simply aren't funny because they don't need to be). <br /><br />PZ wasn't born with an audience. He worked for it, being the most prolific blogger I can think of as well as doing interviews, conferences etc. Being a white male probably made it <i>easier</i> for him to gather his audience, and I'm sure he would readily admit this, but my point is that 'privilege' as discussed in social-justice circles is more about what you take for granted, specifically because it is granted, ie you never had to work for it.<br /><br />As a guy, I get to post largely what I like, where I like and experience remarkably little blowback. And then very occasionally I might say something that offends someone because it's politically incorrect, and I get some grief over it (eg so far on FTBullies I've been crtiticized for using 'bitching' and defending 'hysterical'). I feel like I'm being judged unfairly, just because I'm a guy. And maybe I am sometimes.<br /><br />And then I realize that that's probably what it's like for a woman, except they have to put up with that shit all the time. The only time I have to even think about my gender is in a discussion about gender. Women have to deal with it all the time. Even when people <i>like</i> you it sucks to be a woman with an opinion, because there are so many men who think their sexual attention is a huge compliment. An exasperated Kate Beaton pointed this out a while back: http://scottmccloud.com/2010/11/01/i-cant-believe-it-only-went-up-friday/intepidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06952425050298527970noreply@blogger.com